100. JOE RICHARDS: A SPACE BETWEEN…
To celebrate the 100th contemplation of M-A (A SPACE BETWEEN), a series of questions are proposed by members of the M-A community to editor and founder Joe Richards.
M-A (A SPACE BETWEEN) in MagCulture London. Cover image: Joe Richards photographed by Orlando Osinowo.
AZIAH LUSALA: I’d love to hear more about what inspired you to start M-A (A SPACE BETWEEN).
M-A was started for two reasons, firstly as a need to create a space for emergent talent to be seen in a very specific curated context that I didn't see existing in magazine publishing. Secondly, to provide an opportunity for myself to step up into the role of an art director.
Part of my work and responsibility is in education, I meet students in tutorials where I see new work and sometimes you will see an alignment of self - of when natural talent meets a moment of opportunity and it is very rare and very special to witness live - it is when a creative person is birthed in a way. It is both exhilarating to see but also sometimes very sad because so often that work is never seen again, so I decided in one of those rare sightings to do something about it.
I was also tired of seeing brilliant talent being patronised by art media so I decided to create a platform, originally with Manon Duhamel and now with Hejing Fang and Zhonghua Sui, which would be a place of respect and a place of extreme beauty, because I believe talent is talent - it is from a higher place and should be treated as such. M-A is named after the Japanese state of pause and contemplation, which I hope reflects that intention.
Aziah Lusala, Black Jesus, 2023, Oil on Canvas, 100cm x 100cm. London. Private Collection. Black Jesus was presented in the exhibition ‘From The One To The Many’ in September 2024, at Saatchi Gallery, London.
The publication is a chronicle of discovery. Every image chosen is because it makes my heart beat faster - every image was made by the artist because it is a reaction to a feeling that could not be expressed in any other media. And so each issue is very visceral - it changes you, it guides you, and that is what M-A offers. Within each issue, there is work made by both emergent and established artists, this combination allows for a juxtaposition of connection, which further charges each issue.
Yoko Ono, Installation view of Apple 1966 from Yoko Ono One Woman Show, 1960-1971,MoMA, NYC, 2015. Photo © Thomas Griesel.
Additionally, I know you curated a show that I was part of — and do you see yourself doing more of that in the future?
Yes
XIANGYIN TOM GU: How do you manage to encompass, in many times, complicated sources of inputs from different artists and writers, in presenting M-A (A SPACE BETWEEN) and what do you envision this platform to become in the future?
I manage though my subconscious on the most part, using my intuition as much as I can to guide the choices I make. I have come to realise that once you collect pieces of work made through expressions of an individual’s search for truth - then a soul emerges from all the works together, similarly in curation. This collective energy guides the direction of the edit. In many ways I am not really managing this direction, I am following it.
‘Entangled Past’ by Xiangyin Tom Gu 2022.
CHIEDU OKONTA: Your questions are very intuitive. They are guided towards not only receiving the answer you want in the clearest and most honest form but also aiding the artist in digging deeper into understanding their work, practice, and even themselves. Is it a part of your thought process to include a means to assist the artist in articulating their practice through the questions?
I want to know the answers firstly because I am fascinated in the work of the artist. Some editors, I hear say that they ask questions for their audience, and I ask questions for myself, but yes sometimes I ask questions for you to hear yourself because there is often more revelation of reason in that. Part of my intention for M-A (A SPACE BETWEEN) is to do what the best educators I work with do, they create a space to think in and to hear yourself back - and so that is what I hope the interviews do - to create a space to hear yourself back - and to be more precise with that thought. A lot of the questions I ask return to a point Carrie Mae Weems makes about paying attention to the work - because the work will tell you what you are up to, and this is what I am most interested in.
Carrie Mae Weems - Untitled (Woman and Daughter with Make Up) from Kitchen Table Series, 1990 © Carrie Mae Weems. Courtesy of the artist, Jack Shainman Gallery, New York / Galerie Barbara Thumm, Berlin. Thank you Barbican. Image published within M-A (A SPACE BETWEEN) issue 3. Still life image: Harry Nathan.
DANIEL McCABE: Do you ever visit a show or exhibition and think, ‘I really have nothing to say about this’?
Most of the time, in fact I have become more attracted to work which challenges me to think harder, I feel the most exciting work will not let you in easily, it challenges you to step up and think. This is when you know, also when work is ahead of the time you are in, even if it was made a long time ago, it challenges you to consider your position.
Magalleria Bath, window display of M-A (A SPACE BETWEEN) issue 2.
Ideally I enter the work knowing as little as possible - Looking back through the 99 contemplations, the turning point in technique was probably a piece I wrote about Dan Flavin - a show at David Zwirner gallery and I entered the space not really knowing about the artist other than seeing the work occasionally, but that show was all encompassing, I left the gallery a different person to the one who entered and art can do that - my task is to document the change, the discovery, it is not to review the work, but to contemplate it. I learnt this in the writing of the Flavin piece - I just surrendered to it - I listened to it - it totally changed my method and since then I repeat this way of recording.
Dan Flavin, coloured fluorescent light - David Zwirner - 24 Grafton Street, LONDON.Above image: Anna Arca. Courtesy David Zwimer.
I realise now that my aim is to connect to the soul of the maker of the piece - it is very meditative in that way - I think this is probably why the platform moves people so much because they mirror this - and the viewer needs it, they want to feel more - and they want a space to do that.
Ekua McMorris, untitled, image courtesy of the artist.
EKUA McMORRIS: You often reference women of influence, from Toni Morrison, Oprah Winfrey, Carrie Mae Weems, can you say something about how you have been inspired by these women and how they have shaped your thinking, making?
I feel it goes back to my own mother of course, and I am probably sensing her in the wisdom and grace of others also, looking back I have always sought guidance and inspiration from woman, my teachers at school, in my friendships, and in the music of Sade, Lauren Hill, Mary J. Blige and when I started to read, yes Toni Morrison, Maya Angelou and when we were blessed to hear Carrie Mae Weems speak, these women change you with their contribution, they instruct you to react to cultivate change and I practice this. In terms of shaping my thinking, I see my voice, my place as having more value now in terms of enabling change, this must on some unconscious level be in direct response to your question. And you Ekua, you have taught me to trust more in that instinct.
Eva Vermendel, ‘Wave’, Margate, 2017. Image courtesy of the artist.
EVA VERMENDEL: If you could choose one piece of art from the Courtauld Gallery, which one would it be, why and where would you put it?
'Antibes' by Claude Monet - That painting is extraordinary - the revelatory ability he had to depict emotion within nature is... very challenging to translate in a language which is not Monet. Monet is a radical conceptual contributor in that sense - to depict the moment after a rain storm, the warm air of the ocean - and of course it is him, he is these elements and when we view them we also become them... A work as a window - inhaling the sea air as if not seen for a long time, and we return to remember, it has a bodily pull - a physical embrace. I hang it permanently within my imagination and retreat to it as much as possible, especially in these times.
Daniel Obasi, image courtesy of the artist.
DANIEL OBASI: Journey through time and correct a mistake past, present or future.
I would correct the times when the human condition overrides the instinct to do the right thing.
Mistakes are not always mistakes but decisions masked as mistakes by those who do know better - and so I contemplate that moment of choice - which arrives as a pause of thought, if there is one, which actually I think there often is, take an extra moment to consider your response ahead of action.
Lee Miller, Giza 1937. Image courtesy of the Lee Miller archives. Published within M-A (A SPACE BETWEEN) issue 2. Still life image: Harry Nathan.
ALMA STRITT: What does it mean to hold an image?
There is a palpable point in editing M-A when the images will form a consciousness of their own, and they hold you - the viewer - this shift is extraordinary and a highly addictive point of discovery for me within the process. They take hold of you because you see your reflection back, you relive parts of your life and you have distance to be objective and read the messages which are audible only to you and this is why I love and live through this - because it is a direct line to humanity and to the state of the culture, and artists have been blessed with that ability to tap a much higher vibration, I trust in this.
MAXSHO, No Dey Squeeze Face (Dont Worry), 2023. June 2024.
MAXSHO: When you dream, where do you go? Could you describe Joe’s sanctuary where he meets with his soul?
I levitate, I breathe in clean air and I fly, not so much in a Fellini way but in a Chagall sort of way, and sometimes I play games which make me laugh alot as I am invisible so no one can see me... it is very liberating to fly and be invisible. It is funny actually as this is often the response people make to M-A (A SPACE BETWEEN) about fresh air, maybe I am manifesting that.
Callum Helcke, Photographed by Arnan Wang April 2023.
CALLUM HELCKE: If you could pick one person, who might you wish could read these contemplations, and, how do you think they would respond? Still here or passed, well-known or close to home.
It is for the stranger who didn't realise they were estranged - it is for Peter Pan who belives in the window always ajar - in many ways it is the publication I wish I had when I needed deeper inspiration and the publication I realise I need now because it mirrors who I want to be and who I am - I have been making versions of M-A for 30 years, this is how I make sense of the world, when I first showed these books they became useful to others and so M-A became what it is out of need - not really out of choice... M-A (A SPACE BETWEEN) is a service in that sense, to show what is next - its objective is to inspire radical thoughts and to create a space to contemplate the future... so it is for all of us.
Cy Twombly, Window Screen, Lexington, VA, 1997. Dry-print on cardboard. 17 × 11 inches. © Fondazione Nicola Del Roscio. Image published within M-A (A SPACE BETWEEN) issue 3, still life image: Harry Nathan.
Thank you to all featured artists, galleries and press departments for your support and contribution.
To read all 100 contemplations and interviews, visit M-A (A SPACE BETWEEN)